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Stuart Charters: And

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Martyn Rivett: You're not in certain dishes.

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Stuart Charters: Because we've got a large number of participants and feel free to turn your video on and if you if you'd like to that would ask you to stay on on mute. Unless when except when we get to the questions. Paul part. And we asked you and invite you to speak and

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Stuart Charters: Just to help us manage questions as we go through and encourage people to use the zoom chat feature. And then the bottom of your screen to post questions and that just helps us to to manage those as as we move through

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Stuart Charters: And the

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Stuart Charters: Report is Creative Commons and and we encourage you to share it, share it far and wide and equally and

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Stuart Charters: We'd encourage you to participate and

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Stuart Charters: Where possible to do that on the same Creative Commons terms and

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Stuart Charters: We're offering all care and no responsibility without without report and feel free to to share that as wide as you like and but decisions and directions that you choose to go in, based on that is, is purely up to you and and

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Stuart Charters: Do feel free to reach out to us on on LinkedIn and on the back page of the report, and there's some little all the profiles and both Martin and I are link there in in on that page.

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Stuart Charters: So with without further ado, what I'm gonna do is hand over to Martin, who's going to

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Stuart Charters: Take us through report. And if you get a burning question during that time, feel free to enter it into the chat and we will have a little bit of time at the end to pick up

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Stuart Charters: Some of those questions between Martin and myself before we head over into the panel discussion.

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Stuart Charters: Marketing

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Martyn Rivett: Thank you, Stuart.

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Martyn Rivett: So for diving into the conversations I've been tremendously fortunate to have the opportunity to have about this, this report.

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Martyn Rivett: Also say my and thank you to think signals approach. This has been

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Martyn Rivett: Courageous, and for thoughtful and I hope that I've been able to do that. Some of the justice that it deserves that the the the the openness with which just you and the team approach. This has been

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Martyn Rivett: Has been compelling, really. And for me, it's been a great price is

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Martyn Rivett: An opportunity, I think, to draw together the threads off of

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Martyn Rivett: A quite wide ranging discussion that

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Martyn Rivett: You know,

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Martyn Rivett: I've been told in part of the feedback process has been been invaluable to see everything in one place so

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Martyn Rivett: We've, we've opened the feedback channels as wide as widely as we're able and you see in front of you on the screen, some of the feedback that we've received

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Martyn Rivett: Quite a wide range of views, I think.

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Martyn Rivett: Absolutely. Welcome, more so I'll leave the link open

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Martyn Rivett: To the Google doc for feedback as well. After, after this

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Martyn Rivett: And

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Martyn Rivett: As skewed mentioned our intention is to make this a conversation, rather than

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Martyn Rivett: My, my, all our opinions written down so

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Martyn Rivett: Going forward from here the last state of this process will be to gather the feedback that we get and publish that as an addendum to the report so

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Martyn Rivett: Yeah, we hope through that mechanism to to make something that that's worth contribution to the discussion. And so some of those those views.

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Martyn Rivett: We touch briefly on them.

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Martyn Rivett: A view, first and foremost, the cove. It has been an opportunity to to get things done that.

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Martyn Rivett: You've been opportunities for a long time and so

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Martyn Rivett: I think we touched on that in the beginning of the report that

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Martyn Rivett: Year we will find ourselves in a place now where we have absolutely in impetus to to look at the

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Martyn Rivett: The way forward in a different light and with the view that we have the possibility to my answer is perhaps

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Martyn Rivett: You greater than then then we thought we are governed and that's most driven by Kobe. But I think it's also clearly stated by some of the, the, the events in the States as well. But the other taken on this first comment is from a technological for tech professionals perspective.

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Martyn Rivett: You know, are we really moving too fast.

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Martyn Rivett: And I think perhaps discuss this as we can further

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Martyn Rivett: You know where whereas in some places people are comfortable with the pace of change comfortable with technology in many areas of society, it's causing stress. Stress and even concerned.

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Martyn Rivett: About some the future it here, but it's not evenly distributed

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Martyn Rivett: So,

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Martyn Rivett: Moving forward from from there.

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Martyn Rivett: You, there seems to be a general consensus in my discussions that

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Martyn Rivett: Is there is a need for change. The question is in the model. I was in the right one. And I don't really present any, any of the work that we've done

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Martyn Rivett: As right or wrong. I think what what we've been trying to achieve here is a conversation and to promote that discussion as an important discussion for the future of tech education technology and new things as a whole. So

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Martyn Rivett: That's your I guess my aspiration for it.

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Martyn Rivett: And I touched on the feedback at the top of the second

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Martyn Rivett: Second column.

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Martyn Rivett: I hope the report lighter overall to basis as a starting point for that discussion can be nothing more than that ready and so

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Martyn Rivett: Looking more specifically, I've heard feedback from a couple of places the some of the, the, the, the clients will acquire it and the one that keeps coming up is this view from denotes research that seven months in a job employees, you're loyal to him to

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Martyn Rivett: A significant proportion of millennials. And I think that that illustrates a question of question marks around working cultures and and how they've developed and the engagement between staff and employees so that whilst and okay

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Martyn Rivett: Senior academic gave me the view that it was interesting that institutions have been repackaging the existing products.

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Martyn Rivett: For new markets and essentially you're looking to two axes for for student

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Martyn Rivett: Income rather than when we reviewing the the the

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Martyn Rivett: The deliveries. Further, the high market. And I guess that's a

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Martyn Rivett: View from from my interpretation of the the

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Martyn Rivett: Landscape, but I think it's clear that the from from the data that there's a significant reliance on obviously students that's obviously going to challenge that the the higher education institutions going forward in in in postcode world.

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Martyn Rivett: So we had a one one question from the web form, looking at the effectiveness of financial incentives to steer student into city pathways.

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Martyn Rivett: I don't have any specific research on that. But what I can say is if you look at Dan pink's in research on on motivation.

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Martyn Rivett: His, His views where that money overall is a cool motivator.

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Martyn Rivett: Compared to

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Martyn Rivett: The desire for for three key motivation factors about autonomy mastery and purpose. So people are looking for independence.

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Martyn Rivett: A way to use their skills effectively and to work within something meaningful or towards the path parks is meaningful and yeah I would greatly recommend

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Martyn Rivett: A quick search in YouTube for damping combination for

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Martyn Rivett: For that research. And so the other aspect that we've we've been

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Martyn Rivett: Quite encouraged by was we've had

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Martyn Rivett: Interested in feedback from

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Martyn Rivett: Both technology industry commentators and education should commentators on the final idea within the title which was the

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Martyn Rivett: kite flying suggesting that we we consider and then independent model for policy execution for education in same mode as the Reserve Bank independently excuse monetary policy and there was an article written in CIO magazine for that. And that's been

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Martyn Rivett: Very engaging for for Sue and I set out to have that idea taken up.

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Martyn Rivett: Baby touch on some of the reasons behind that.

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Martyn Rivett: As I go through the next few slides.

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Martyn Rivett: So moving on and do by all means, if, if I'm taking too long. Just move, we move on because I can talk about this, but rather

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Martyn Rivett: Right. And so what I'm going to do over the next few slides and there are a few is just really touch on some key themes are not intending to come into depth, but really, just to skim across the surface to to illustrate some of the main points of discussion.

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Martyn Rivett: And takeaways. I've taken

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Martyn Rivett: In, you know, apologize for my my rather late, late pre preparation and presentation. So yeah, it's not as beautiful as I'd like. And

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Martyn Rivett: These are just hooks really for me to to intern to point out a few key points. So the feedback that we got is the system is not producing the right skills for for employers, really, there's this great need for

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Martyn Rivett: More

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Martyn Rivett: For one of the better description soft skills more

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Martyn Rivett: fully rounded sets of skills coming out of the the

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Martyn Rivett: The Graduate pipeline.

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Martyn Rivett: For people who can work within the

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Martyn Rivett: Business context effectively.

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Martyn Rivett: I think this question marks in my mind about

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Martyn Rivett: Whether it's, yeah.

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Martyn Rivett: I'm going to stick to to educate those skills or something that come with experience and what role does industry playing in building that that sense of, okay, let's see.

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Martyn Rivett: What what we see.

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Martyn Rivett: Despite the fact that there's increasing demand for it capabilities in in industry globally. We see falling

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Martyn Rivett: Roles on

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Martyn Rivett: In

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Martyn Rivett: Participation in higher education student made there the various price point that this is a general

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Martyn Rivett: View of participation. But other than that, an hour but but nonetheless with

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Martyn Rivett: The understanding is that that's reflected in tech as well. And so we've been

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Martyn Rivett: Importing importing students from

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Martyn Rivett: Countries around the world. And that's the representation you see on the right.

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Martyn Rivett: And so

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Martyn Rivett: You know that that's something I think challenge.

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Martyn Rivett: education institutions going forward as code makes that more and more difficult though. Yeah, there's a question of whether whether coming to New Zealand isn't is potentially more attractive. Now, I suppose. And so moving on from from there.

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Martyn Rivett: Meanwhile, meanwhile, the real world marches on. And this, I think,

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Martyn Rivett: Will these two pictures give a view of what's what's happening in terms of the technology landscape.

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Martyn Rivett: And so on the left, you have the the the exponential curves that were presented in in in the report on the right. There's a piece of quick and dirty home screen scraping did yesterday for explaining topics.com and these are their statistics on search

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Martyn Rivett: Search request increases over actually the past five years for for these terms but in many cases, much, much more recent than that. And these are they're selected.

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Martyn Rivett: Set top 10 increases for search terms that they believe will will persist post curve it

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Martyn Rivett: And

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Martyn Rivett: Seven. I think out of 10 are technologically mediated or just straight tech. So we've got some some wonderful terms in there, such as on draw, which is a service for

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Martyn Rivett: Getting a clip art and the brand new kicked off influencer

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Martyn Rivett: Honey gaming is apparently sending your bandwidth for for profit. So what's their bandwidth. You can you can only get it for money.

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Martyn Rivett: Apparently, Tick tock editing is is a new job, a new role that people

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Martyn Rivett: Make automated tools for doing your behalf and landscape is a it's

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Martyn Rivett: An interesting term for a company that sells

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Martyn Rivett: Cosmetics for me so quietly in treating set of worth

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Martyn Rivett: Of things there. But, but I think really the point I've drawn from that is more and more we're moving into a techno technologically mediated world and

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Martyn Rivett: I think courage and the need to de risk from Kobe, it will drive businesses towards that that

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Martyn Rivett: Certain further in my view.

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Martyn Rivett: So,

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Martyn Rivett: And it's getting very real. So

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Martyn Rivett: There's a dramatic shift in looking at the top left to Iran in the kind of skills that people need according to the economic forum, we're moving more towards creative skills solving problem solving skills for navigating in new environments.

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Martyn Rivett: I think

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Martyn Rivett: That that challenges in and of itself to think about how do we educate those skills within our systems as a standard life.

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Martyn Rivett: We see a new New Zealand.

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Martyn Rivett: Changes coming out over the next 20 years

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Martyn Rivett: I think it's clear that

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Martyn Rivett: You know, around the world that have the impact on an uneven distribution of benefit. It's having we touched on the tab seems on and in Parliament F data, you know,

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Martyn Rivett: an illustrative made up diagram from from myself, which is by no means research but but

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Martyn Rivett: Just view all of the increasing possibilities.

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Martyn Rivett: Position that many people and not able to cast those or

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Martyn Rivett: Even and yet.

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Martyn Rivett: We talked a great deal about what's possible with technique that's that's not necessarily the world that

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Martyn Rivett: The majority of start moving in my view. So for me, one of the key aspects are increasing access to tech education is

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Martyn Rivett: To to to address these these discrepancies and create a society where where we are all involved in the decision to impact that the technology as a singer has to happen from a position of

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Martyn Rivett: Understanding that first

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Martyn Rivett: So,

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Martyn Rivett: I guess the

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Martyn Rivett: The key to this lady is the systemic aspects of it and

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Martyn Rivett: For me, if we keep doing the same things will keep getting the same results. All

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Martyn Rivett: Look, yeah, potentially not even as good and very much

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Martyn Rivett: You know, I guess I'd like to look at this as, how does the participants and the stakeholders within the system work together to to improve the outcomes across the board and

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Martyn Rivett: How do we, how do we optimize the system for better outcomes, rather than localized focus on individual outcomes which then

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Martyn Rivett: Maybe optimize, you know, fulfilling for you can book time produce the

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Martyn Rivett: Best possible outcome for the wider community or take a picture.

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Martyn Rivett: One good illustration of that I think is it's a signal case so signal was was created in 2016 in, in the meantime, I spent half a range of industry engagement and

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Martyn Rivett: In 2020 just

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Martyn Rivett: Some of that would, you know, my VP starting to bear fruit. It's now printer disappearing to the list of time and that that engagement is not going to pay the fruit, but I think it could

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Martyn Rivett: And if we if we system within this rapidly changing world where it's predictable. What, what will happen in the next six months alone, five years.

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Martyn Rivett: Then what what we need to think is to create systems that support us to iterate and systems that support us to to optimize over time and

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Martyn Rivett: In my view, that means building your

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Martyn Rivett: Effective underlying infrastructure of regulatory environment.

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Martyn Rivett: And partnerships that facilitate THO THOSE OUTCOMES

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Martyn Rivett: So that, that, in a sense, lives behind the, the idea of independent policy execution. So we touched on before

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Stuart Charters: That's probably a good, good point.

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Stuart Charters: Move on to

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Stuart Charters: Bit of Q AMP. A and then into a panel discussion.

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Stuart Charters: And I think on the next slide a capital and headings.

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Stuart Charters: That we could use just to jumpstart but the other. The next one as well. Yes.

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Yes.

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Stuart Charters: Yeah.

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Martyn Rivett: So yeah, I used to do. Happy to take

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Martyn Rivett: Questions. Now, I thought that's worth. Whoa, I can

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Stuart Charters: Run through any yeah I think thank you for doing that. And it's good.

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Martyn Rivett: To

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Stuart Charters: To both recap what we talked about him to to set us up well for the the panel discussion and

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Stuart Charters: And I think we've got some questions that we've sort of been thinking about here. The what now and the maybe will stimulate some questions from from the audience. Just a reminder to people that they can enter things into the the chat and

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Stuart Charters: I know that we've got our expert panel lined up and I wonder whether we go in here, they have used and then

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Stuart Charters: Maybe at the end if we joined the wrap up. That will be a good way to capture everything

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Stuart Charters: So,

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Stuart Charters: To move into the panel part and we've asked each panel member or if we've given them three minutes and I've got my handy timer here and

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Stuart Charters: To and to give us their reactions to the report and so

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Stuart Charters: We've got four four wonderful panelists and I briefly introduce them before. And what we can do is give

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Stuart Charters: Each of them. Another introduction and then hand over to them and so

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Stuart Charters: We have no known and fixed order for this but written first on my list is Victoria so

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Stuart Charters: Vic and is a was a multitude of hats attack investor a director or a mentor and and a cheerleader. And she's

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Stuart Charters: Managing Director optimal BI and she's Chair of the digital skills forum, she's

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Stuart Charters: Co Chair of em said rise. She's on the board of cocoa bar up here and and I've sure I have have missed many things that you're you're you're involved with

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Stuart Charters: Vic, but I know that you are a fantastic cheerleader. And for for the sector and the you have guided and mentored many, many people through. So I'd like to hand over to you and

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Stuart Charters: Give you your three minutes in the spotlight to give us your thoughts.

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Stuart Charters: From from all of your experience in this area.

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Vic: Thank you. Thanks Joe koto koto koto Victorian McLean and talk over and over. But is it still has the wrong calls me

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Vic: And I do wear many hats and so I'll just explain briefly what some of those hips are because they

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Vic: Seem to explain how I have my foot squarely in two worlds. One is, is the business owner and the digital technology industry high on some other businesses that aren't tech companies by wouldn't finance, for example.

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Vic: And the other is very much and enabling digital technology education space. So my my

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Vic: Substantive business doctrine will be is a data services business. One of the things that we do is deliver education for people to learn about data and data literacy in different ways to wrangle the

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Vic: Disparate data sets and and get some insight out of that. So training as a big part of our business.

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Vic: The next thing we're talking about is indeed rice, which have been coaching for five years now indeed rises and industry group of digital technology business owners who are all New Zealand owned companies so

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Vic: We have a specific raison d'etre of promoting by New Zealand made and the importance of buying from New Zealand companies so that we can become those export companies that

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Vic: Are to hold our so dearly need from a GDP perspective, having local customers is really, really important to us.

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Vic: And we also another big part of our advocacy is around education in our ability to get talent into our organizations.

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Vic: The next thing to mention, which is closely aligned with indeed rises, the digital skills forum.

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Vic: And I very traditionally described us, and this is being recorded so I'm sure some government officials might see it.

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Vic: As a forum for wrangling, the government kit. So we have a very fragmented and disparate ecosystem.

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Vic: Around digital technology, education, as we all know in in the report highlighted quite quite strongly some of the challenges and the disconnections between

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Vic: Education and education policy seating and industry and the skills for him as designed to try and just Wrangle the government agencies that all have a foot and digital

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Vic: Technology Education and digital technology capability growth and I'd have to say it's, it can be challenging because

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Vic: They all have fabulous initiative say all things digital inclusion as the most important thing right now. So let's run around teach everyone how to use an eye and iPhone or or a Chromebook.

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Vic: without really understanding the the outcome that we're trying to achieve, which has to have

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Vic: Technically literate people coming into a workforce in people who are able to work in an increasingly growing digital education. I'm sorry. Digital Technologies industry.

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Vic: And in the third head. That's where the mentioning that I we're as I'm the chair of a charitable trust called digital future our total

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Vic: We operate a number of programs, one which many of you have probably heard of his Code Club. We have about 4000 cuts around the country, learning how to code and a really safe environment. We teach them about digital rights we teach them about

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Vic: About increasingly and today as well as an English we teach them about Molly data sovereignty, we talk about a lot more than just how to code, but the context of the technical, will the technological world that they live on.

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Vic: The other programs that we operate, she can code, which is

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Vic: Designed to activate and stimulate girls and to learning and opening their minds to digital technologies because diversity from an agenda perspective as a really big challenge, but also diversity, as we know from a multi in Pacifica perspective.

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Vic: And I'm the one with mentioning as electric gardens, such as which was episode. Yeah. Biggest program. Now, by far, where we have Internet of Things devices and school Victory Gardens.

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Vic: And we teaching students how to grow Kuma in some flowers and interpret the data that's coming from the IoT devices in it's just amazing when you have a 10 year old.

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Vic: Telling you about the correlation between the soil temperature, the air temperature and the rapid growth of your sunflowers. I just cried. The first time I experienced that person I so

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Vic: Really important part of the ecosystem as well as Opening Minds to young people about digital tick and I believe I've used my three minutes already. Stuart without even commenting on the report.

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Stuart Charters: You're involved in so much like that, it's, it's fantastic, but I'm sure that we will

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Stuart Charters: Have plenty of opportunities for you to, to, to add your comments as as we go through. And that's an

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Stuart Charters: Error and I'll hand over to you next. But Eric is the executive director of the memory features collective and

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Stuart Charters: You've been working across a number of spaces for a for a while. I know that we've had conversations going back four or five years in the digital space. And that's an area that's very close to your heart and the work that you've been doing so.

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Stuart Charters: Over to you.

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Eruera Tarena: Oh koto koto and I'm he he knew he could go either way to Tara networking or mine a wing. Right. Oh, an IT pro made up and I GOTTA GO TO MY NAME IS IT A waiter.

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Eruera Tarena: I run

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Eruera Tarena: An indigenous Social Innovation Lab. So within my he we have mito and focusing on equity for all Marty, and then I told turkey. We're by 2040

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Eruera Tarena: So we really focused around it. So the education, employment income pipeline that could at the Career part one and

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Eruera Tarena: We do that really through three sort of Poe insights innovation and influence. So we do a lot of stuff around run at a banner voice. What does the future look like putting a lot of

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Eruera Tarena: Systems mapping outcomes for our young people using big data, and a lot of stuff around forecasting and trying to understand feature teams.

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Eruera Tarena: And we do a lot of innovation work with our own Renata here around giving them the tools and processes to lead change.

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Eruera Tarena: And we have our own sort of methodology, I guess, which was called mighty future making and then we try and tie that all together by working with partners to help them transform the practices. So really for me.

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Eruera Tarena: If the report sort of touches out a whole bunch of things around skills. And so it's just really something I've been trying to wrap my head around.

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Eruera Tarena: And really sort of seeing that we got these two sort of big bosses of change in the scenes of our demographic changes.

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Eruera Tarena: So my RV park yeah baby being born as a Marty baby a Pacific a baby and an Asian baby and not too far off that, you know, Marty going to make up 30% of our student population and not too far behind it 30% of our

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Eruera Tarena: Workforce. And so I think by 2050 half of our workforce will be Marty Pacifica or Asian and part of a brown majority. And so really, when you look at it starting to look at the opportunity around it and not

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Eruera Tarena: Won't pay in any other state to take education space, but really looking at it and understanding my day job somehow managed to calm someone to support me to look at equity really

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Eruera Tarena: And I can see that there are huge opportunities in terms of body Marty pathways and I'm also really Mesa berries and Tim's of Marty. And when you look at

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Eruera Tarena: Depending on what you're looking at, you sort of looking around two to 6% of the seeker is modern and when we're going to make up one third of the workforce. It's it

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Eruera Tarena: Should be a concern for the industry and as absolutely consumed for us is Marty. So I think it's probably my three minutes up and looking forward to the conversation. But I think, yeah, aside from that sort of demographic shift is I see it. It's really that sort of old way looking at that.

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Eruera Tarena: All will do a paradigm around qualifications and jobs and it's sort of linear journey of get your qualifications stay in a job and in retire.

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Eruera Tarena: You really starting to wrap our understandings in Hades around skills and trajectories and how we can equip people with transferable skills to be able to adapt and shape the future rather than survivor filter data.

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Stuart Charters: Thank you Eric and some great jumping off points I've been there to have some conversations when we go into the main part of the panel discussion.

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Stuart Charters: And Jason I'll head across to you next. And so, Jason is joining us from Pittsburgh in the US where he's the director of strategic foresight for knowledge works. And some of you may have had the pleasure of hearing Jason speak at

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Stuart Charters: The future of Learning Conference and where he's King noted for the past two events and it's great that Jason you've

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Stuart Charters: Stayed up to join us and our afternoon or for this event. So I'll hand over to you for your, your three minutes.

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Jason Swanson: Sure. And thank you, Stuart. Stuart Martin, it's, it's an honor to join the panel. It's so nice to see old friends and meet new friends and it's always an honor to to talk to New Zealand like my favorite learning community on the planet.

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Jason Swanson: So it knowledge works is fairly unique in the since 2006 we've been really rigorously exploring futures for learning.

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Jason Swanson: So one of the topics that is near and dear to our hearts is the future of work and, by extension, the future of readiness. So as I reflect on this paper first I need to applaud both, both of you, Martin and Stuart like this. This paper is elegant

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Jason Swanson: And it's a must read this is an issue that is a global issue so so many of the future tensions that are highlighted in this paper, our attentions that we're grappling with.

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Jason Swanson: Actively in the US as well. So some things that really struck me. The first is the framing of the problem. So I'm thinking of your slide in that systems diagram.

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Jason Swanson: That such a elegant simple framing.

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Jason Swanson: To a holy complex issue so it in the framing of the issue.

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Jason Swanson: was really struck by, you know, the depth of the data. And as I said, the elegant simplicity that you know I could give it the parent test where if I see my parents on holiday, it becomes a really easy thing to articulate to them, even though maybe they're not living in that situation.

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Jason Swanson: More specifically, it's the futures portion that got me tremendously excited. I think that this was particularly well thought out.

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Jason Swanson: From describing sort of the future attributes of a maybe an ideal or preferred system that could be nimble enough to keep up with tech acceleration and job turn

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Jason Swanson: And really begin to cultivate many of the skills, and dispositions highlighted by the World Economic Forum. I think you're thinking around the change in educator roles mirrors. A lot of our own thinking.

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Jason Swanson: And really shows you know the types of change needed

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Jason Swanson: Really across the education profession.

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Jason Swanson: To really speak to directly to students needs and their emerging needs for the future. And lastly, I gotta bring up the notion of of the central bank or the Reserve Bank.

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Jason Swanson: And that's something I would like to see explored in more depth. I think that that idea is wholly compelling.

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Jason Swanson: The gentleman that said this is a great example of, you know, independent policymaking. Yes. It's also a great example of resiliency, as we're dealing with, you know, a crisis of crises right now and the need to think differently about how we shape in really organized systems of learning.

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Jason Swanson: That scenario, Colonel. I think is wholly compelling. So hats off to to a tremendous paper. I think it's it's vitally important that people read this and I think that's three minutes. So thank you.

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Stuart Charters: Thanks, Jason, and whilst where we're looking particularly at the kiwi context.

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Stuart Charters: I think it's, it is important to recognize that

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Stuart Charters: Tech is is a global global thing. And certainly we know that nations around the world are have skill shortages and and that this is a problem that's getting bigger. Rather, the smaller

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Stuart Charters: I'm going to say to head over to Cali Robinson, who, as well as being a signal board member is managing director of at me here in Indonesian

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Stuart Charters: It's Carly has been with us for much of the signal charity and she's seen

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Stuart Charters: Both from from a board saying the board reports about what's been who's been coming through the system with us. And what's been going on, which is also interacting directly with with our students. So she's extremely well placed and from from both sides. I think to comment on signal and

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Stuart Charters: On the report so Carly, over to you.

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Kylie Robinson: And thank you, Stuart. So for a little background on myself. I have a computer science degree myself and I took that through to work.

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Kylie Robinson: In computer animation for many years before starting my business team me and we predominantly make

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Kylie Robinson: software solutions for the sporting market around GPS solution. So when we make GPS trackers for sailing boats. In fact, we're making the GPS trackers that are being used in there.

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Kylie Robinson: And the next America's Cup vent. And so the kind of stuff that we have here all quite high tech staff and looking at this report, it's been really interesting to start to gel together some of

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Kylie Robinson: The realities of all we do when we're looking for staff and then how that means that we that with our staff come from and where they're learning is and so

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Kylie Robinson: You know, when we, when we read this report, it goes into Australia, do you teach people specific languages or what is it that you teach them and then for us when we're looking to employ people within take we're not necessarily looking for specific skills.

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Kylie Robinson: Or specific tools because those tools to change really really quickly and and when you are working in and taking you are building solutions, you actually have to be careful.

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Kylie Robinson: Of what tools you do choose because then you can end up getting yourself a little bit of technical details as things change.

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Kylie Robinson: So means the stuff that we employ really need to be able to keep their finger on the pulse of Oliver is the current best practice now. So in many ways what

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Kylie Robinson: Is to teach your technical staff is actually how to keep learning how to keep changing and how to keep up with whatever the current technology is and but for us. We also for soft skills.

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Kylie Robinson: And this is probably in many ways more important than the actual tech skills in the one that would really look for us is people's love to solve problems.

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Kylie Robinson: And so 10 years as a small business, and as a small business, I think we're looking for is about cash flow.

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Kylie Robinson: And sales. So that means all of our staff need to listen to our customers and they should really want to solve their problems.

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Kylie Robinson: So if we're looking to employ people the first things we look for us, you know, one is what skills they have. But actually, how much they really want to solve problems and often we end up looking at the CDs for the

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Kylie Robinson: For the extra curricular projects that have done projects have done in terms of real world projects.

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Kylie Robinson: And that's not necessarily the ones that they do through the learning institution, it's often you know what concepts they joined. What website, have they made for somebody, we have, what have they fixed for the grandma that kind of level of stuff.

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Kylie Robinson: But I'm also a mom of a 10 year old and it's this reporter think is almost more focusing on on that age of have children. You're right. Beckett primary school

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Kylie Robinson: And because the issue that we see learning institutions of higher learning institutions have of my mentors, you know, there's a crying out for for these technical people but actually there's not that many people within that pipeline.

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Kylie Robinson: At the learning institution level notes that kids that we need to be inspiring down and it's a 13 year old.

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Kylie Robinson: Level. And so for me, I'm trying to make sure that what I encourage with him now is

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Kylie Robinson: To actually have the joy of trying to solve problems for people because that's essentially what tickers it's it's solving problems for people. It's not just sitting down and coding and knowing how to code. It's actually wanting to find and have fun and solving whatever these problems.

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Kylie Robinson: But the other side of this is once you are starting to solve problems you actually need to know how to find that information in many ways.

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Kylie Robinson: tickers and is now can kind of create issues around that. Because when you start to look for real information real facts and you know the before of opinion.

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Kylie Robinson: To try to teach our kids. The difference between opinion. In fact, and actually being able to have a critical thinker to to start to ask the hard questions if you're trying to solve problems for people

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Kylie Robinson: To need to be good at asking those hard questions to get to the root of the problem. And so this is a nutshell.

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Kylie Robinson: My thoughts on reporter and I'm moving off now.

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Kylie Robinson: Right, just do it.

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Stuart Charters: Properly and I just like to invite the other panel members to

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Stuart Charters: unmute their microphone and and we go into

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Stuart Charters: Bit more of a free free flowing discussion, but

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Stuart Charters: He had had so much so many hats to tell us about that you didn't get to comment on the report. So perhaps

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Stuart Charters: You'd like to start off with.

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Stuart Charters: Thinking. I think one of the things that has has come up is both the pipeline issue and and the diversity.

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Stuart Charters: Issue, and we see

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Stuart Charters: There's ethnic diversity gender diversity for diversity, a huge, huge range of things in that diversity piece. And I know you're involved in a number of initiatives that that are aimed tackling that

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Stuart Charters: But who are we missing. How do we reach them.

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Stuart Charters: What, what sorts of things should we be doing. So if you'd like to start with that. And then other panel members if you'd like to, to jump in as well.

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Vic: Thanks, Joe. And I just want to congratulate you, both on the reporters and echo the comments of the other panelists, that it is great to have this

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Vic: Cutter out there and to start this dialogue and from a different different place. So obviously signals facing some challenges. And so it's not coming from a self interest we want more.

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Vic: Students place is coming from a we want to do the right thing by by our nation and in for the future.

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Vic: And then talking about the future, one of the one of the paradigms that we need to get our heads around as

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Vic: When I started working in digital technology 30 years ago and I didn't study digital technology. I fell into it was my first job.

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Vic: I was doing things with a tick and I didn't work with another woman for teen years which is a really long time and your career to to be the only woman who

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Vic: Has had a serious T co kind of a role so diversity is always been top of mind for me. But one of the paradigms, we need to really think about is

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Vic: Every role is going to have a digital technology component to it in the future. And we're not going to have as many digital technology specialist, they will be specialized

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Vic: Kinds of roles for people, but we really need to start educating and preparing our workforce for a future with digital technology will be part of the free role, an entry level role at the warehouse. These days needs.

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Vic: A base level of digital literacy but moving up this scale mini entry level roles will require more more capabilities such as mechanics and in the future. We're cars are no longer

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Vic: A labor market thing to be maintaining the much more a

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Vic: Theory computer basically to be maintaining sort of the digital technology skills of a mechanic or a builder or other kinds of traders are going to have to move up the spectrum. So diversity needs to be tackled worth it.

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Vic: With that in mind, and as, as you've heard, Russian reporters everyone's highlighted on this call so far.

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Vic: We do have a lack of women represented and the education system. We have a we have a lack of Mallory and the lack of Pacifica

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Vic: And two years ago, the digital skills from today's survey have over 1000 employees and found that the median wage of digital technology workers and New Zealanders just over $100,000

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Vic: Which is significantly more than doubled the New Zealand median wage. So, it demonstrates that there's a high growth economy via to be tapped into and some real opportunities to move people

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Vic: Until our highest socio economic sphere. If we can get more people working in this industry and Molly and Pacifica in women. A really been really difficult to encourage her look at tick is being

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Vic: Or as some girls have told me smelly boys who play games are the only ones who go and learn about technology. So so so from framing this who need to frame it is being not just a technology specialist skill, but also technology for all of the roles and the future.

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Kylie Robinson: Can I jump in there as well. Just specifically on the women in tech because again I started and then technology. Oh we while back and and like Vic. I ended up working

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Kylie Robinson: With with only mean for quite a long time. And by the time I actually was working with some woman. They came very much a ticket came through from quite a different role they came in through dx go

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Kylie Robinson: And and I've, I've gone along and I've talked to girls schools to try and encourage them to do more sense objects to get into

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Kylie Robinson: Taking one of things that keeps coming back and it blows my mind every time they said, Oh, no, we want to do something that's creative

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Kylie Robinson: And I have to say, well, for 10 years of my life. I made computer animation. I was doing art and 3D space over time. It was more creative than that and but even once you start getting into

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Kylie Robinson: To the ticket. We're doing our with a teeny everything we do is create a new you're solving unusual some problems with weird solutions. I think that is what creative process itself.

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Kylie Robinson: So I think right down at the very young kids that that they have this mythic coding isn't creative and that curling is take an extra coatings only one small part of it. It's just one of the languages.

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Kylie Robinson: So Victoria about Code Club and it took Code Club with my son's primary school for a couple of years, and the first year I took it. I see.

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Kylie Robinson: How many young kids come along. Do this Code Club. I got 17 boys and it was a cow in school and no girls.

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Kylie Robinson: Not one. And I said, Look, I'm not going to take this if you can't figure out how to get the girls to be engaged as well.

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Kylie Robinson: And when they were engaged. It was was great. So there's something happening. And this is from the age of seven that girls are turning off taking really really young.

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Kylie Robinson: And I haven't actually on my finger on what it is. So we're looking at take her out. But, you know, kids coming through university actually losing the rock down at the age of seven.

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Kylie Robinson: And that's one of the things I think we need to look at. And it's probably not with girls and the other for the diversity groups that the same thing is happening, but it's happening very young.

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Stuart Charters: Every. Do you want to jump in here and come in.

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Eruera Tarena: What share screen for a second because all I think and pitches. Is everyone got it.

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah, so this is um the web. I haven't finished it yet, but we've just been doing some stuff around skills clustering and you know scrubbing jobless things breaking it down by skills and following some of the methodology is I think the foundation for young Australians did

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Eruera Tarena: Around they work, school clustering, and so you can kind of see, you got your technologists, which is most of you guys over here it designers that esteem informa teaching nursing management health and also retail and indeed sort of trade instead of blows. Yeah, we see the growth and the

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Eruera Tarena: Skills clusters and in the read is when Marty set

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Eruera Tarena: And so I think for me it's this one picture that go well here's the problem. And he's the opportunity

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Eruera Tarena: That we have Marty over represented in areas where they and low skill I vulnerable high vulnerability to changes with automation and low economic security.

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Eruera Tarena: So all of this is playing out right now, when we're in a recession which had smiley face as longest and yeah I think of the current situation with

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Eruera Tarena: It took us 12 years to get where we were for Marty after the GMC entity. I will. How many times worse is the coveted position and may and to go, well, we don't want to be in this position again. And so when I look at the technologist.

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah, we have a real issue here around pipelines and equity and Burke, the stuff he doing with CCO club. It sounds awesome. And I think, yeah, you've been involved with our coders and

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Eruera Tarena: He we around it and stuff. And it's just, you know, we needed times that by a million. And I think, again, it's not just gather at the absolutely economic benefits, but really when you think about that.

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Eruera Tarena: Technology is a way of building immunity to economic shock and equity. So it's not beer or Justin It's really my interest in and they go, there's

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Eruera Tarena: A there are kind of racist ideas that money at Google, their hands and budget is throwing everything at shovel readiness.

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Eruera Tarena: And I really loved what you see. Jason around the future of reading. It's they go, yeah, we should be future really. And I think that's one of the challenges we're going to face is how do we start to see

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Eruera Tarena: Young brown boys and girls is capable of being good with your hands me and opening up a whole range of new pathways and from our part.

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Eruera Tarena: That will mean that they'll be yeah a lot more mobile and immune to the economic shocks of pain demons like and the musicians.

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah, the economic impacts that we've seen from the coven 19 pandemic. Yeah, we don't want to be in a situation again when we're talking about the impacts of automation or climate change on air economy.

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Eruera Tarena: We've got that shift. And it's really as both a problem and the opportunity around how do we connect you know future readiness.

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Eruera Tarena: pathways to the jobs of the future where the younger brown and faster growing workforce.

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Stuart Charters: Error. If there was one. One thing that everybody could do tomorrow, would it be

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Eruera Tarena: Stopped streaming and math and science.

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Eruera Tarena: It's probably the booth culprit and themes of Marty outcome were

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Eruera Tarena: Even when you look at the ability levels, Marty or four times more likely to get streamed into foundation medical science and

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Eruera Tarena: You're looking at the vast majority of mighty boys and never have a shot at your industry because the channel away from it from the age of about 1314 and 15

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Eruera Tarena: So just, again, these are not evidence based practices, they are all different racist ideas that have a normal school system, though, you know, that whole idea of

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Eruera Tarena: Low expectations becoming self fulfilling Prophecies is a big barrier basis mixed ability, where, you know, you know,

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Eruera Tarena: A way in which you're investing and high expectations of young people and supporting them to achieve the goal. So

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Eruera Tarena: It's always complicated when you asked what's the one thing that will change the world. Because we do know that these are systemic issues that there are multiple leavers that is one really kick ass lever that we should be changing and post covert 19 environment. We know it's paid

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Stuart Charters: Jason

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Stuart Charters: Does that match with with the US perspective and you know similar

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Stuart Charters: Issues, probably around participation in them generally competing

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Jason Swanson: Absolutely. Yeah, so, um, you know, from my view, it's a yes and to everything that was shared

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Jason Swanson: I think that coded has done a couple of interesting things for our systems. One, it's made them radically transparent. Right. So all the inequities that we know where there are glaring but it's also kind of

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Jason Swanson: The weight of history that has made large scale systems transformation maybe implausible before is significantly lesson.

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Jason Swanson: So when we look at things like diversity in a pipeline issue. I think we need to get serious about systems alignment. When we look at primary and secondary school

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Jason Swanson: What do we have to shift there so it, you know, on one hand it's a wholesale reimagining of curriculum thinking through, you know, in a tech enabled future

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Jason Swanson: When we're thinking about math what math. Do you really need, you know, do we need to start teaching you things like basie and statistics, much earlier.

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Jason Swanson: In what ways can we think about implementing stem steam maker, Ed. The things where where kids can apply technology and gain technological fluency in in a creative mean

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Jason Swanson: It's, it's also about getting really serious about personalizing and getting hyper targeted supports for those students that do have an interest but or maybe falling far short math for variety of reasons.

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Jason Swanson: And then looking for connections between, you know, our formal learning systems and out of school time learning

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Jason Swanson: So, you know, all the work that you know our young men and women are doing as part of a coding club should 100% count as part of the formal learning journey.

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Jason Swanson: So thinking through the different mechanisms for assessment and credentialing to widen those pipelines and even looking at different ways we might consider admitting young people into post secondary learning

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Jason Swanson: That may be you know pre coated seems just like a promising signal. How can we scale up those promising practices.

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Jason Swanson: So, you know, those are some of the things that we're looking at from, you know, increasing diversity and inclusion and really specifically around equity and justice.

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Jason Swanson: But I think once we can start to solve for those problems we start to widen you know that those pathways to participation.

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Jason Swanson: And then the other piece I should add, it is we need to get really serious about way finding for young people.

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Jason Swanson: So it can't just be, what are you really good at, what do you want to study in school and then you're probably going to do that as a career.

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Jason Swanson: But, you know, how can we start that conversation, very early and surround that young person with professionals and mentors and unless the learning advisory board to carry them through that journey so that they end up at the right place at the right time.

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Stuart Charters: Thanks. Jason and

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Stuart Charters: One thing that struck me, you mentioned make ads Vic. You mentioned the electric garden.

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Stuart Charters: Project and. And the other thing that I've seen, particularly promise school kids get really excited is the Robocop.

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Stuart Charters: But electric garden you know maker spaces, making

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Stuart Charters: Ryder Cup. They've all got a tangible thing. And when we're just coding, you know, often the output of that is intangible. You know, it's software that runs inside of black box and producers, a web page or whatever.

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Stuart Charters: Maybe, Eric, how much do you think the the tangible versus intangible and is something that excites or otherwise young people.

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Eruera Tarena: Probably the wrong one to answer it. What I will say is, for me, I'm okay. This isn't Mike in terms of commenting on individual programs. So the way I look at programs is I hate help people overcome yeah beat the odds

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Eruera Tarena: And really all men just sit and how do we also have systemic changes that change that.

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Eruera Tarena: Though that, you know, we shouldn't have to have the Pooh hold or steam Academy, because all our brand gets gets changing a string than the foundation made some science.

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah, we shouldn't have to have the circuit breakers, we should be able to see the have high expectations and and based in their potential.

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Eruera Tarena: And the dreams of alien people and I think they kind of kind of speak the values to me. So rather than getting into the my new details to go, you know, what's the kind of feature we want

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Eruera Tarena: What's the society we want what's the purpose of education system and what role can industry play and get advancing and bringing it future COSA and you're creating a pathway to an equitable treaty base future

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Eruera Tarena: And I think as a as an industry, it's got a lot of work to do in tune to

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Eruera Tarena: That takes you there, but I think they were really fantastic examples as well that we can be learning from areas like and these are those odd connections like the infrastructure sector.

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah I know infrastructure companies that have come out to us and said, hey, we want to do a two year research project.

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Eruera Tarena: Because we want to be the most culturally responsive business and RTR or and we're willing to get our board exit leadership.

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Eruera Tarena: Right down through our organization and go on that inner journey and totally rewire our organization culture to support young Marty and Pacific apprentice axes.

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Eruera Tarena: And just before covert I went to a two day one and on equity with an infrastructure company and it hit the park. Yeah, HR manager. She was just amazing.

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Eruera Tarena: One of the MIT staff and it was actually one of the most intelligent sophisticated organization culture change we have ever seen. And yeah, these guys lay pipes.

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Eruera Tarena: You know, they're into the horizontal. Boom. But yeah, they have a really strong culture of coaching and mentoring. They have strong small teams.

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Eruera Tarena: And Marty thrive and Marty go into those best careers and because they know the fan over there, they know that the old culture eats them and welcomes their culture.

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Eruera Tarena: And so I think there are lots of examples that we can all learn from in terms of creating the conditions for the underground workforce to be thriving and our workplaces and in the tech sector and again coming back to what your report really highlighted.

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Eruera Tarena: Was that

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Eruera Tarena: You know, these are these transferable human skills that are the most valuable and whether it's take, whether it's steam you know that collaborative

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Eruera Tarena: Problem solving, critical thinking creativity. These a traits which are cultural strength for Marty there. How do we really set the value, though in

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Eruera Tarena: accentuate the positives, the strings that are young people already here. It's the one thing and just in closing, I'll say with skills.

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Eruera Tarena: Rather than calls. If you ever call either have one or you don't realize all of us have skills that we can build upon the skills that people already bring and we may show up in the workplace.

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Vic: And

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Stuart Charters: Building on on skills is a great place to to segue into

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Stuart Charters: Carly and and Vic what the

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Stuart Charters: Responsibility is of employers to help build on those skills and

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Stuart Charters: There is, and it doesn't sound like it from, from what you've said fit for your companies, but for some companies that they want.

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Stuart Charters: The perfect jigsaw piece produced and ready to slot into their organization. But what's the, what's the role of employers in helping people to be people that that the organization needs. And I think maybe if we go to you first, and then enter Carly

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Vic: So I'm just so much I want to say on this topic. And so I'm an employer and I represent employers and an industry that has some some real challenges with attracting a diverse workforce in all of the points you just made either

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Vic: Amazing and for digital technology needed to be the most culturally responsive industry, not harder, I would be an aspirational goal. I'd like to lead the charge on

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Vic: But fundamentally, the reality is, you're a lot of employers and and I'll tell you.

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Vic: Who are in it for the batch the boat and the BMW. So they're very much in it for themselves in so they'd rather employ someone who can hit the ground running all of the cliches, we can put an inverted commas.

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Vic: And who's got three to five years experience and meaningful they're locked her immigration is the lever for bringing someone in if they can't find that perfect puzzle piece already from from Aaron stock and they're not

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Vic: open minded enough to

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Vic: Turn feast and culturing in a culture of mentoring in developing capability and from the digital skills from spirit of wisdom of age.

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Vic: early last year. Employers around the barriers to bringing and tunes, particularly from the grad schools and from dev academies and program site it into the workforce and one of the barriers was

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Vic: Was cost and when digging down into that cost barrier, the cost estimates that they were concerned about was having to assign star other staff to

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Vic: Mentoring in supporting the internet that bringing into the workforce. So we made a mess of mind shift here we need employers to start looking at this is a

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Vic: From a systemic change perspective, turn it on its head. We're all responsible for developing a workforce and at hard rock.

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Vic: And and it's got to come be led by employers, large and small, and I'm not saying all. I'm not going to tell all employees with this brush because there are many that are amazing.

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Vic: Theatre just gave us an example of a really impressive and instructions were Carly's already described your own organization and the way they treat people there are some amazing employees, but we still have a very

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Vic: male dominated

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Vic: Best of employers who who focus on productivity and numbers and not focused on people in the ecosystem.

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Vic: And into the to the premise of this of what do we need to do is a team post covert to recovery our economy and so on. Behind education and develop our people. This is one of the things that every employer needs to really focus on

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Kylie Robinson: So, I mean, from what what people are saying, I am a little unusual in terms of how employee, because actually new on our staff have communism tunes. So with employment directly out of the local university. So when we started a teeny, we may have to say no we're here we are endeavoring

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Kylie Robinson: To make them better. And we have this amazing results with university in the politics. What's existing and today because they should be really good around them. We have a special

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Kylie Robinson: Internship Program that happens differing for a year with a have local employers make sure learn to kind of the university and you can have a

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Kylie Robinson: Quarter speed dating tackling take lots people see the gel with only take on on an internal to every year. And that's actually what most of our workforces now and it's interesting hearing what you're saying because I have seen

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Kylie Robinson: Being an employee, like I haven't come from business out of the business side of things. I am a developer myself lose business. I've learned stuff.

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Kylie Robinson: From the tech side of things and doing that you get to work with and business where you're asked to join border. You get to see some of that high level.

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Kylie Robinson: Business that goes on and it's become very apparent within the board levels of business. Most tech companies are run by lawyers and accountants and science always muesli

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Kylie Robinson: Because how do you run a tech company when you actually don't understand how it works. You don't understand why people don't really understand

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Kylie Robinson: Yeah, I love you want to say that that basic need that customers want to buy something and you'll sell something, but there's a sheet and liberal culture. It's, it's another business that

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Kylie Robinson: Often they don't seem to get. And then I watch people within that or they start to ask questions. But why can I get the employees in the business to do what an easy thing to do.

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Kylie Robinson: Because you actually haven't got people within your Otter understands them, you're not putting to people within the highlands of business.

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Kylie Robinson: To start up something come up and they integrate they get the board on and then they kind of squashed home start intelligent and this that kind of happens from tech businesses as well.

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Stuart Charters: Bali and

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Stuart Charters: Jason. Is that something that you see happening in in the US economy that you know people are expecting the perfect jigsaw piece or is that that far more of

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Stuart Charters: A culture of mentoring and growing people

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Jason Swanson: Ah, it's a both. And I think that we do have a perennial issue with what we would consider shifting goalposts so it's always

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Jason Swanson: We hear the narrative of hey grads don't have the skills you know for to be hired for said industry. And then if they have the skills, then it becomes issues around soft skills right and sort of those constants and timeless needs that an employer seeks

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Jason Swanson: So there is a lot of pressure from industry for post secondary to get it right and to kind of create that jigsaw puzzle it at the same time, you know, post secondary is going through both contraction.

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Jason Swanson: And heavy amount of disintermediation right so we're seeing nano degrees pop up micro credentials that you highlighted within a within the paper looking competency based frameworks learning logs, things like that.

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Jason Swanson: So there's more opportunities for in a potential employee to kind of show what they know that are maybe a little bit less traditional and can kind of go through that culture of mentorship.

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Jason Swanson: But like I said, it's a both and and as these things are happening to it, we need to recognize that the place of formal workplace learning

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Jason Swanson: For many of our industries is is all but gone right most of that on the job learning that induction happens in more of an informal it across more informal instances.

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Jason Swanson: So, you know, like we started the conversation. This is this is certainly an issue in New Zealand and really across the globe.

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Stuart Charters: Thanks, Jason. And I'm aware. We're getting towards the end of our time together. And so what I want to do now is take a tour around and Pamela again to say

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Stuart Charters: Is there anything burning and for you that we haven't managed to to dive into and Vic are what come to you first, and then then to Aaron, if that's okay.

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Vic: You asked the question of what was one thing

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Vic: And in picking up on his theme of stopping streaming

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Vic: I guess I've probably got three one things

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Vic: And project based learning it kind of ties into the point you were making a very tangible things

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Vic: If our mainstream schooling system promote a project based learning unilaterally, then everyone will get an opportunity to to to create tangible outcomes and learn and very different ways. Second thing would be and I was appointed Jason made on

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Vic: And our total guidance counselors or career advisors completely a discretionary expenditure for schools. I personally think we need to go back to some kind of early intervention, I

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Vic: I've been involved in a project in the Bay of Plenty with today under the age of 15 her outside of schooling system and

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Vic: Talking to some of these young men. They have no idea that digital technology even exists and they talk about forestry and I talked to them that Kobe a drone operator, you know, there's a whole lot of

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Vic: Other kinds of roles they don't even know about. So Opening Minds. That would be the second thing.

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Vic: And then the third thing as just be the connection through the system we have mess of gates and gulf between the stage of the education system between the education system and industry.

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Vic: And between charities, like the one I'm involved with many other fabulous ones who are trying to provide free education around the country.

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Vic: There's just too much fragmentation, we've got to find a way of connecting it all up. So that would be my, my final points that that really underline everything that you've seen in the paper.

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Stuart Charters: Thanks, Eric. And then go to Carly

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Eruera Tarena: This as opposed to the

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Eruera Tarena: You know, the, the opportunity. Yeah, if we think what anyone have thought that whole government agencies and businesses could jump to working remotely in a week.

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Eruera Tarena: You know, six months ago and what a lot until you made, but you know anything's possible now right so

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Eruera Tarena: I think when you're looking at it starting to go and all the complexity. A lot of the work. Jason does

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Eruera Tarena: In terms of some of those scenarios and some of those tools, but again it does kind of come back to values and the gavel we hit values that kid for each other and response.

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Eruera Tarena: And really, how do we steam it menarche Tana that spirit of a walk at know into their recovery into go well.

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Eruera Tarena: Yes, we go into the recovery. It's not going to go back to the way it was. Yeah, this is accelerating.

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Eruera Tarena: All of those changes that will on the horizon for the importance of take is like jump by fall and then it was, yeah. Six months ago. So, particularly

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Eruera Tarena: Yeah, we've got there really yeah I think window of opportunity to go, Well, how do we harness it unity. How do we also be really clear about the cultural values that are going to drive our decision making and you know take

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Eruera Tarena: As an emerging seeker with an emerging culture.

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Eruera Tarena: It can choose to be the most equitable fear and just industry and all to door, and it can totally happen and be interesting to see the energy and it is the gains that can be achieved over the coming year.

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Stuart Charters: Thanks.

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Stuart Charters: Carly

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Kylie Robinson: One thing I would love to see the changes that demystifying removing the fear that people have when they see code and

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Kylie Robinson: That idea of teaching kids to code really is something which you should be looking at doing that's what the school system. So you learn how to spell your name, how to do math.

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You learn

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Kylie Robinson: How to Write a basic algorithm. And I don't mean like advanced coding. I'm just meaning, being able to look at

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Kylie Robinson: Your list of commands and they have done a stand there, he did something for kids can control. It's not something to be scared of. And I think we can take that out and really young age.

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Kylie Robinson: Then actually stop. This is an element of fear that goes with take. I don't understand it. I'll take a step back and actually can get past that first little PERT

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Kylie Robinson: Then you're never quite similar in about understanding it just that that I need to take time to go through and read it.

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Kylie Robinson: And a lot of people tend to sit code is very much to learn to be a programmer. So it's not actually that it's it's living a set of rules and

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Kylie Robinson: Tasks, one after the other, or you know the basic enough statement is exactly what my team illegals paper is it's it's about your writing so much of

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Kylie Robinson: The NASA scientists are saying, If this happens, then this happens, this happens, and I've got control over that. And I can do that. And it's super

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Kylie Robinson: Basic colors. And so I would like to say that don't promise political not looking at the higher learning institutions but write down at that level.

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Kylie Robinson: With the same passion of love to see a primary school kids learning a second language because New Zealand as a small tiny country and even around the world learns multiple languages. I work with other foreign

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Kylie Robinson: Countries and it's really embarrassing to sit there and say I'm sorry I rudely speak English because middle of the other languages. Just another one and digital much those two things.

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Stuart Charters: And

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Stuart Charters: Jason and you get to be lucky. Last thing.

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Jason Swanson: So i two things come to mind. The first arrow highlighted is the need to drive to towards the future with our values in mind in that, you know, our young people are going to be, you're going to have levels of technological fluency that we can't conceive of in that

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Jason Swanson: Just the, the need to in the desire to create the next generation of innovators and entrepreneurs.

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Jason Swanson: It is, it's a worthy task. Right. But I think that we need to make sure that the those innovators and entrepreneurs are our human right, they're just not a heart with creators.

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Jason Swanson: And then on the other side, one of the skills I would like to see added to the list. The World Economic Forum list is not just the ability to navigate complexity, but we need to start really instilling skills and our young people to navigate high degrees of uncertainty.

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Jason Swanson: And I think a lot of the skills that they gained through a technical education can help them with that. So those are just my two reflections and and really to I wonders.

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Stuart Charters: Thank you, Jason. And thank you to all of our panel members for their, their contribution, it's

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Stuart Charters: Been a wonderful conversation. Now we have a number of people who

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Stuart Charters: Are in the audience and and i think it's a would be great to get some input and feedback from from you.

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Stuart Charters: What I'd like you to do is

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Stuart Charters: In the chat area and just write a word or a sentence about what you've been most excited by or most likely to go and investigate more deeply as a result of the the panel conversation. And if you do that, but don't hit enter, just yet. And

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Stuart Charters: So I'll give you a moment to type that and then what I'll do is I'll do a countdown and if everyone hits Enter at the same time, then we'll be able to capture

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Stuart Charters: A bit of a theme.

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Stuart Charters: Themes where where things have resonated with people. So I'll give you a moment to do that and explain what's going to happen.

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Stuart Charters: After, after this event. So obviously we released the record and at least our panel members have meant

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Stuart Charters: Have read it. So thank you very much, gentlemen, was fought for for reading it and if you haven't yet read the report and I encourage you to take Jason's suggestion and have it on your must read list and and to share it with with other people that you think need to read it.

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Stuart Charters: And Martin and I are going to be writing up a post event summary which we will release under Creative Commons and alongside the report and so that we can, in some ways, capture some of the essence of the conversation that we've had today and

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Stuart Charters: Hopefully, use that to continue the conversation and

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Stuart Charters: We've got forthright the digital skills for and in in New Zealand, which I know is, is having

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Stuart Charters: Some of these these conversations and and whilst the wheels of government and Wellington 10 slowly. Hopefully we can add

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Stuart Charters: Some impetus to to let and and I think every you've you've deeply challenged us to to really think throughout the whole pipeline about and how we think about things and and and what we what we do.

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Stuart Charters: And in this post and moving into this post coven

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Stuart Charters: Time it does does feel like there's a period of opportunity where where where rapid systemic and lasting change is is perhaps actually possible and where we saw barriers and blockers before

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Stuart Charters: And so hopefully we can capitalize on on that and make some some real progress and and and sort of opportunity isn't lost. So hopefully everybody has been

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Stuart Charters: Busy typing in the chat area. So I'm going to count down from from three and then I'd ask you to hit enter, so that we can we can capture those themes about what people have been thinking about so 321 go

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Stuart Charters: And that's great to see those things coming through. And so we're going to end our time together just

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Stuart Charters: overrun by two minutes. I can see my my watch, telling me, but thank you everyone for taking the time to join us this evening. Thank you once again to to our panel.

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Stuart Charters: And actually,

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Stuart Charters: Pre prepared or pre lockdown. We've been thinking about a physical event and and

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Stuart Charters: coven forced us to go away and change those plans, but I'm glad it did because it allowed us to bring in a more diverse set of voices.

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Stuart Charters: A wider audience and and in it. Sometimes

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Stuart Charters: You know, we think narrowly without even realizing it, and something just gives us a little wake up call, and

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Stuart Charters: So that that has been really good for for for for me. So once again, thank you to everyone. Thank you for joining us and we will send an update around the summary to to everybody on the mailing list for this event. And when we release it.

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Martyn Rivett: And just to say thank you for me as well. It's been privileged to be able to be a part of this conversation into it. You know what, perhaps I'm fine observation in the aspiration of something better.

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Martyn Rivett: Experience of request you to rebuild has been that unless we actually do something

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Martyn Rivett: You know, the, the, the status quo reassert itself. So, but now I think there is an opportunity, but it very much depends on on you know our action to grasp it. And that, that's my my my last thought for for for the end of this, this process, I guess, thank you for

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Martyn Rivett: Me to be part of it.

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Vic: Thank you.